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Dori Seda Interview by Ed Smith December 23, 1986 DS = Dori Seda /
ES = Ed Smith / DS: I was painting before I started doing comics and it wasn't, uh, like nothing was happening and that's a take off...
ES: Actually, you know what we should do, what we should really do...
DS: Sit down? (;laughter)
[break]
ES: Okay, so, this is a Dori Seda interview, Berkeley, California, December 23, 1986. So, actually, why don't you talk and then we'll see if it came out.
DS: Okay, does my voice come [unintelligible]...?
ES: That's good enough, okay.
[break]
[laughing] [unintelligible].
ES: So when did you first realize that you were a cartoonist?
DS: Well, I wanted to do comics back in about 1972. I was really into underground comics, I really liked them and I really, I mean, my favorite cartoonist at the time was Crumb and I was living in Normal, Illinois of all places at the time and...
ES: Really?
DS: Yeah. I was going to school there, I was in college. And, ...
ES: What school?
DS: Illinois State in Normal, Illinois. There's a Frank Zappa song about Susie Creamcheese from Normal, Illinois, and that was where I was going to school. But anyway, one of my teachers, one of my art teachers, uh, knew some of the people up at Kitchen Sink and he said, why don't you try drawing a comic? Because I was really into 'em and I was doing ink drawings that looked like cartoon drawings, and I did this really pathetic story about, uh, vampire mosquitoes and he said This is really terrible, and why don't you stick to painting, and I thought he was probably right.
And so I just went back to painting and I think the thing at the time was, I don't know, I was like about 20 years old and I just hadn't experienced life very much and, you know, I'd grown up in the suburbs and all this other stuff. I...
ES: Where?
DS: All over the place. Des Plaines, Illinois, Elk Grove Village, Illinois...
ES: [West] Village?
DS: Elk Grove Village.
ES: How do you spell that?
DS: E-l-k...
ES: Oh, Elk Grove.
DS: [laughs] Elk Grove. Village. And, uh, I lived in Austin, Texas for a while. And [Danville, Illinois]...
ES: Before it was a big avant-garde art center.
DS: Right before. Right before, we moved out, we moved away from there in 1967, I think. Something that's interesting is, I didn't know Rocky [Ericson], he was a lot older than me, but his parents' backyard was up against my parents'...
ES: Who is he?
DS: Oh, you don't know who he is? He's this old hippie that, uh, um, musician, they had a group like, uh, back in the 60's, it was called Rocky and the 13th Floor Elevators, it was a psychedelic band...
ES: Oh, I've heard of them, I didn't know the Rocky part.
DS: Yeah, yeah. Oh, but Rocky Ericson, it's like, he's like making a comeback, you know, sort of and he's still kind of considered like this avant-garde, you know, rock musician.
But anyway, his parents' backyard was up against my parents' backyard and his brother was in my class at school, but, anyway, I used to listen to them, I thought they were real cool, but you know, I was like this little 15-year-old at the time. But, um, uh, anyway, that was before, I got [unintelligible] [thought], mmm, okay, well, you asked me where I grew up.
ES: Now I got it louder.
DS: Okay, louder. Okay, um... this is a completely strange interview, [laughter], I can't even remember what we were talking about. So anyway, like, the thing was, I hadn't experienced life. I moved, um, I left Illinois, I was down in San Francisco for, well, I'm in Berkeley now, for the past year, but I lived in San Francisco for, uh, I guess 11 years now, and, you know, like I just did a whole lot of things and I guess I learned a whole lot about life and ... oh, I'm trying to think what it was.... I just guess I've been doing comics now for five years.
I just, I wasn't getting anywhere with my painting and I decided to try comics again and I thought I could write a decent story and it turned out I could. You know, so. The first story I had published, somebody else wrote it, and, um, Crumb wanted it for Weirdo, it got rejected a lot of other places first. And, um, after that, like...
ES: You were excited about that, though.
DS: I was real excited, I was real, real excited, I was so used to sending slides of my paintings out, [coughs], to competitive shows and getting rejected, I'd gotten, you know, I didn't expect to get in anywhere, but it was like this exercise that I did, you know, I sent things out all the time and when Crumb, you know, accepted my story, I just went crazy. And you know, I just...
ES: Well plus also he was your hero.
DS: Yeah, uh, yeah, the funny thing, one of the funny things, my favorite Crumb story is Pete the Plumber that was in [Hy-Tone] Comics, and Don, my boyfriend downstairs, he was the publisher of that book. So, anyway, I came out here...
ES: What... what was that of?
DS: Apex Novelties.
ES: Oh.
DS: Yeah, yeah.
ES: Oh. That was him.
DS: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
ES: Oh, wow.
DS: Yeah, so it's really funny, because here's my hero and he's the one that got me into comics, if it hadn't been for Crumb, I don't think any book [laughs] would have wanted me in. Uh, you know, and then I ended up, you know, with Don, you know I met Don and we just, our personalities, we just hit it off so, here's people [you know] a long time ago, you know, saying, Wow, you know, this stuff is great, you know. And [Hy-Tone] was my favorite book at the time. Anyway, I thought that was real neat.
But, [giggles] [keep my voice]. But anyway, I sent a few stories to Crumb and, uh, there was one story that, it was like getting real crazy, I wasn't sticking to a storyline or anything and I kind of liked that story, but he wrote back [giggle] to me and said, I can't follow the story, because I was trying to do all these goofy things with it [coughs]. And, uh, so, anyway, he wrote back and said, why don't you try writing stories about yourself? And so I tried to do that and, uh, uh, that was more fun than anything, I think those were the best stories. And I think I learned a lot about writing the story from doing that.
ES: And those were the first few stories that went into Weirdo?
DS: Um, those were, uh, okay, the first, the first three stories I had in Weirdo, the first one was written by Kevin [Lampert], uh, he's living in Austria now. The second two I wrote, but they weren't stories about myself, they were, you know, things I made up out of my head.
ES: Which stories were those?
DS: Uh, let's see, um, the Nude Photography Class and, uh...
ES: The person in the Nude Photography Class looked a lot like you, though.
DS: Uh, yeah, well, it was based on real life experiences but it wasn't, [cough], I didn't say this was Dori and it wasn't a true story. You know, it was based on, yeah, I guess it was sort of was autobiographical.
ES: But you pushed the guy out of the window in the story, but...
DS: But that didn't really happen, and, I never, you know, like that whole thing is actually a composite of a whole bunch of different things with a whole bunch of different people. Um... It's not really [laughing] that interesting. You know, a bunch of things about a bunch of my friends. And, actually, I guess the second one didn't even get into Weirdo. I think the second one that I made up, um, well, that one got into San Francisco Comic Book, but that's the one that Crumb said he couldn't follow the story, and that was, uh, ...
ES: Who edited that?
DS: Gary Arlington. [coughs] Don and I are doing a story together about Gary Arlington [laughs]. But, uh...
ES: Where's that going to be?
DS: That's going to be in San Francisco Comic Book. Gary's, uh, editing another one. But, um, then I started writing stories about myself. It was a real good idea, and people seem to like those the best. Um, so that's how I got into comics and that's how I got interested.
ES: So your background was in painting - oils, and stuff?
DS: Uh, acrylics. [coughs]. But I liked, I liked doing, I, I liked doing comics a lot better because what I was trying to do, what I was trying to do with my painting was I always wanted to say something with it, and it seems like, uhh, most art, it's like people want a picture, you know, they don't really want a painting, you know, that says something, you know, where you're trying to say something. And, uh, I really wanted to say something.
And with comics, you know, that's what you're supposed to be doing, you know, you can't just draw a picture, they have to be saying something.
ES: Well, how do you feel about the whole, you know, explosion of comics as, illustrated novels and that sort of thing that's happening?
DS: Um, um...
ES: The new literary renaissance in underground comics.
DS: Um. I think it's great. I think it's great; I'm not sure exactly what you're talking about though.
ES: Oh, I guess there was an article in the local paper about it and I'm making...
DS: Uh-uh, yeah, well, what are some examples. [cough]
ES: Well, the article I don't think was really that, because in the whole article they didn't mention Zap at all and that sort of thing, but it was basically about Love and Rockets and American Splendor...
DS: Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, uh, I think that's great. I think, uh, I think it's really wonderful. It's really neat, because undergrounds, for a while, there were a whole bunch of them coming out and the quality started going down, and the neat thing about the independent publishers, you know, they don't call themselves underground, but you know, they are, um, you know, they take a lot more risks, [giggle], like Marvel and DC. And they're trying to do something that's interesting.
ES: Marvel is trying to take risks now, it seems like.
DS: Um, I don't know. Actually, I'm not really that in touch with what's going on at Marvel, I really don't care, but, uh, a lot of the independent publishers are like really neat.
ES: Now, you were using your hands a lot until I picked up the camera...
DS: Oh, really? Oh, okay...
ES: ..Not like you're posing for a picture...
DS: Oh, okay, oh, should I do stuff with my hands?
ES: Well, I mean, just do what feels natural.
DS: [coughs] Oh, okay, you know, I'm doing that um, uh subconsciously, not doing things with my hands.
ES: Okay, 'cause I was just wondering, because as soon as I picked up the camera, you put your hands in your lap.
DS: Oh, okay. Oh, okay, I did that, [laughs]. I'm sorry. I, I, I get kind of nervous when there's, I like the idea that there's going to be pictures in this, but I do get nervous, nervous in front of a camera.
ES: Good.
DS: [laughs] Want me to do that again?
ES: I'm sure you will.
DS: I don't know, I think it's really neat, there's a lot of, uh, there's a lot of books coming out now that I'm real excited about. One of them is, I think my favorite New York cartoonist is David Boswell. He's, um, I think Eclipse is publishing, going to be publishing him now and he's wonderful. He's just, um, he did Heartbreak. I wrote him the first fan letter I've ever written to a cartoonist in my life, I'd never even written one to Crumb. And I wrote one to him. But that book was just absolutely wonderful and Reid Fleming is, you know, it's really good, I think. He's just, he's just real, real good.
ES: Wonder why the little things at the bottom of the camera aren't lighting up, there's these little things under the viewfinder that are supposed to light up and tell me when I'm focused and they're not doing it.
[colloquy re: camera]
DS: Oh. [laughs] Well, I think maybe, can you take a picture and ask me another question, too? Because I can't hear the end of what I was saying. Oh, the new explosion and everything?
ES: Oh, no, that's not important. Who gives a fuck..
DS: Oh, no, no, I think it's great. I think that, um, it's like adult comics are really like sort of making, uh, making, making a comeback and there's also, like, you know, all the new wave cartoonists.
ES: A comeback from the 60's?
DS: Yeah, yeah. And people are starting to get interested in 'em again, I think. They got kind of burned out on 'em and there's like all kinds of new energy and new people coming in, you know, like Peter Bagge and, uh, um, Kaz and, uh, I think I'm leaving out a bunch of people, but, um, you know, all, Norman Dog and Linda Barry and, um, all these like New Wave sort of cartoonists. So there's a lot of new energy coming in and there's just like a whole lot happening and real neat because I, uh, started going to the San Diego Comic Convention, I guess the first year I went was like 1981, and I kind of felt like there were, um, you know, there were like all the Marvel people and everybody, but I felt like, um, you know, as far as people that didn't want to go mainstream and who were new, I was like the only one. Like I didn't meet anybody else that was a new cartoonist who didn't want to go mainstream.
And, like, now I go down there and there's like all these, there's like all these cartoonists. It's like, you know, we've got this big bunch and it's a whole bunch of people, these artists...
ES: Well, I was really surprised when I went into the stores tonight and I'm going, Who buys all this stuff? There's just so, when we went into Best of Two Worlds, we were looking for the Omaha, it was the second place we went to, and we looked all over and there were just like tons of comics and this little girl comes up and says, Do you have any regular comics? You know, like Archie? And they had like a little section of regular comics,...
DS: Uh huh. Oh, wow!
ES: ...but it took up maybe 15% of what was in the store.
DS: Yeah, I think it's great, I think it's great, it's um, it's really neat, it's really really neat. And...
ES: Okay, so, enough of, like, the world of comics, what about what you're doing?
DS: Uh, well, let's see, I could talk about comics some more, but I think you have to think about, think about, well, okay, I could talk about me. Um, I'm working on, well, I could talk about comics more, the thing is, I think, I think if, um, uh, [laughs]. I'm having a coughing fit.
What am I doing? Well, I'm working on Lonely Nights #2 and I'm editing, I'm co-editing with Krystine Kryttre, um, Wimmen's Comics and Renegade is publishing Wimmen's Comics now and they're an independent publisher and, um, uh, let's see, what else am I doing? I'm working on Lonely Nights #2, and I just did that poster for Les Blank for the Gap toothed Women movie and I'm working on the t-shirt now. I've got, like, it's really neat, I quit my job a little over a year ago and I was worried...
ES: Your job as...?
DS: I was, uh, the bookkeeper at Last Gasp. I worked there for six years. I think I started there in 1979. Um, uh...
ES: And how'd you make your living before that?
DS: [coughs]. Well, I made, [laughs], I really made a, um, I'm trying to think, a career of figuring out how to get on unemployment. [laughs]. And I had the system all figured out. [laughs] Um, I [worked] things like weird jobs for six months and then get on unemployment, like, somehow, and so that was what I was doing. I was, like, really into painting, and, I don't know, I worked at a Happy Donuts, the night shift, for a while and [laughs] and I was a sauna attendant at Grand Central Sauna [unintelligible] ; and I was an art model, like, for a real long time. And,...
ES: You mean, like a figure model?
DS: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. For classes, nothing real sleazy. And...
ES: Photography classes?
DS: Yeah, [laughing] some photography classes, too. Um, but it was never anything like real sleazy or anything. And, um, you know, like I worked odd jobs and then I went to Last Gasp with a portfolio and, uh, Ron was like really insulting to me and he hired me as a janitor. And I just, like, looked around there and I really liked it and I thought I want to get into comics and I think I can do it, so, um, anyway, then I told him I knew how to do bookkeeping because I'd had a bookkeeping job when I was in college, in Illinois, and I started doing the bookkeeping there and two years after I started there, I got into Weirdo.
ES: You got a Bachelor's degree in Art? in Painting?
DS: Yeah. Yeah. Uh, painting and ceramics.
ES: Oh, really?
DS: Yeah, I made these [wall fired whiteware] [unintelligible] things there.
ES: Okay, I used up this roll, so I'm going to, I have another roll that I'm going to change...
DS: Yeah, I made, yeah, this is how I got silicosis -- from doing this.
ES: Wow.
DS: Yeah, because I...
ES: Do you have slides of this, of any of this stuff?
DS: Um, yeah, I'm trying to think where they -- oh, you know, I do.
ES: Well, what I'll probably do is have you send that stuff to the publisher after I submit the interview.
DS: Okay, yeah. You know something, let me make sure that they're good enough.
ES: Well, you don't have to do it right this minute.
DS: Um, it might be better if you took pictures of 'em.
ES: Well, I will. I'll take pictures around your apartment and then, um...
DS: [coughs] Yeah, because they might not be good enough. Because I do have...
ES: [unintelligible]...
DS: Okay, am I interviewing good? [laughs]
ES: Do you consider yourself an insecure person?
DS: What? Oh, yeah, [laughs] sort of.
ES: When I was talking to Byron Werner, I told him about the laundry day - what was the name of it? The first story in Lonely Nights, laundry day, Laundry Day Delight.
DS: Yeah, Laundry Day Delight. [laughs]
ES: Delight, that was it. And he said, and I said, yeah, all this stuff happened and then at the end, everyone ends up hating her, and he goes, everyone always ends up hating her.
DS: [laughs].
ES: Sometimes I wish that this was like an audio magazine, so we could have... well, let's go downstairs so I can get some more film. And sometimes I wish this was an audio magazine, because they sound so good on tape. There's just no way I'm going to be able to reproduce your laugh.
DS: Yeah. [laughs]
ES: So did you do the color separation on the cover for Lonely Nights?
DS: Uh, no, it was just a painting.
ES: Oh, it was a painting?
DS: Yeah, yeah.
ES: Where's the painting? Is that it?
DS: Yeah, it's right here.
ES: Oh, wow.
DS: Are you going to be coming back up here?
ES: Well, why don't you come down and then we'll come back up here after I get some film.
DS: Oh, okay, and then I have, uh, the back cover was a painting, too, but I sold that one. So, um, I don't have one.
ES: What'd you get for it?
DS: Um, not really very much [unintelligible].
ES: I'm just wondering whether you're in my price range or not. Of course, I don't have one.
DS: Laughs.
ES: Are you interviewing good?
DS: Am I interviewing good? [laughs]
ES: Is this your first interview?
DS: Uh, no. No.
ES: Where've you been interviewed before?
DS: Well, uh, Comics Interview came over here. This was when Leslie Sternbergh ...
ES: Comics Interview?
DS: Uh, yeah [laughs], Leslie Sternbergh and Adam were over here and, uh, we thought it would be a good idea if we all did the interview together, so we all sat down on the floor in a circle, and we all talked to this guy [laughs]. And we were all pretty crazy. And he said he was going to call me back, and he never called me back [laughs]. Because he was going to show me what the interview was like [fading] [unintelligible] I have a terrible feeling that he came over here, and decided not to use it. I'm kind of worried. But - so, please use it. [laughs]
ES: Well, it's not up to me entirely, but I'm sure something will get in there if I go to all that trouble [unintelligible]. I mean, I'm not... the hardest part about these is transcribing the interviews and if I go to all the work to transcribe this, he better fucking print somethin', or I'm going to kick his ass. I'm the West Coast correspondent, you know, so he better do something.
DS: Oh, good, oh, good. Oh but this time I was thinking, I was thinking about asking Krystine Kryttre to come too, because the last one, you wrote in your letter something about my hairstyle and then, in your interview, uh...
ES: Well, I told you why I did that.
DS: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. In the interview...
MW: Got some already?
ES: Yeah, I took a bunch of pictures of her face and her hands while she was talking and then thought I'd take a roll of just around the place after I got done, 'cause it was like really good, you'll see...
[more camera colloquy]
DS: Oh, and then I was interviewed, uh, once before that, um, for the [Telegraph Flyer] and they used it, they used it. You know, I thought it came out pretty good, that one came out pretty good.
ES: Uh oh. [unintelligible].
DS: Are you going to put that in the interview? [laughs].
ES: The printed interview will probably be very short. Like I told you, he's like getting into doing shorter and shorter interviews. ...
DS: Does it have to be wound more? Because sometimes, uh...
ES: Well, it's supposed to start itself automatically, when I push this start button, which it did the last time I put the film in. I'm just wondering what I've done wrong here. It seems to be biting.
DS: Oh, you know what? I'll show you that [unintelligible], I'll show you. ...
This is Leslie Sternbergh's story for Wimmen's Comics, she's doing this story about killer shoes. It's a fashion issue.
ES: Oh, gosh. God, this is nice.
DS: Isn't that beautiful? And then, when she sent me this, she also sent, um, she posed for Hawgs.
ES: Is that her?
DS: Yeah! Yeah! So that's her. And then, like, there's this, ...
ES: What month is this?
DS: Um, [cough], the current month. It's, uh, New Year's one, and then there's a center spread of her on the inside and they called her, this is really funny -- I think I already told you what they called her -- ...
ES: What did they call her?
DS: Big Red [laughs].
ES: Oh, right.
DS: This is so hilarious. Look at this. Big Red. [laughs] And then there's all these pictures of Leslie trying to look sexy and this is what she's really like [laughs]. [unintelligible]. But this was so funny, she sent me the story and the magazine at the same time. She's funny.
ES: Like I said, this camera's been dropped on the sidewalk.
MW: So, anyway, this is woman who did the [crackpot] one?
ES: No, no, no, that was Krystine Kryttre. This was the one who did The Girl Kant Help It. With the live nude girl booth. This is one of my favorites in that magazine, if not the favorite. That was the one that seemed really startlingly brilliant.
DS: [coughs]. Uh, in Cannibal Romance?
ES: No, in Weird Smut, you know, where she's doing...
DS: Oh, Leslie, yeah.
ES: How much do I have to do this before I become a cult figure?
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