DS: Yeah. [laughs] [camera colloquy]

Yeah, I was thinking about asking Krystine -- this is what I started telling you before -- over tonight and, remember I told you about that? And having her be in the interview, too, because she's got this, like, wonderful hair and she's a real good cartoonist, and stuff...

ES: Do you remember me telling you why I put that in the letter? Because at the beginning of uh, Fuck Story, you said, I know why you bought this magazine with the weird cover, and I didn't want you to think that's why I bought it.

DS: [laughs]

ES: But, actually, what I do is I flip through the magazines, and if they don't have enough sex in them, I don't buy them.

DS: [Laughs]

DS: A lot of people buy comic books like that.

ES: Well, basically, you just push this button and it starts it. [camera colloquy]

DS: We got this camera for his mother, and that was when we decided we wanted to get a camera for us, was because I was going around taking pictures of the cats. [laughs] They're just like kids, I wanted to get pictures of them before they grew up. They're going to get big and we won't remember 'em being little.

ES: So I want to get a picture of you with a cigarette and a beer.

DS: Oh, okay [laugh]. Okay, okay.

MW: Let me get out of the way.

ES: You'll be fine where you are.

DS: [Laughs along with Ed's GF].

MW: Think about cartoons, getting inspired, right?

DS: Yeah [laughs].

ES: Lemme take two.

DS: Are you done, yet? [laughs].

ES: Wow, look at how much tape we've used up so far. Is this yours?

MW: Yeah. It's two sides.

ES: I'll be damned if I'm going to have 90 minutes of tape to go through, 45 is way too much, anyway.

DS: Uh, well, let's see, do you have any more questions? It seems like we should talk some more about something. [laughs]

ES: Well.

DS: [laughs].

ES: I think that we got more information than you realize. Because this is like for the general reading public and nobody at the magazine has actually heard of you anyway.

DS: [laughs]

ES: Other than me going, Hey, I'm going to interview this cartoonist in Berkeley, dammit. And like I said, I wanted to try to do the interview with Omaha, too, which would mean that I'd have to have a picture of her in there. They have this phobia about using drawings.

DS: Uh-huh.

ES: So a few days before I came up here, I got a message on my machine from Steve and he said, well, you know, I've been thinking about what you said and I really don't want to have a drawing in there, but at the same time, about this cartooning thing, and I really don't want to have a drawing in there, but at the same time, I don't want to discourage you. And he was saying all this with a Scottish accent, so it was very ...

DS: [laughs]. A fake Scottish accent?

ES: No, a real Scottish accent.

DS: Oh, a real Scottish accent [laughs]....

MW: What's that for? Underneath the refrigerator?

DS: Oh, that's just, well, I think there used to be like something over that, to hide the engine, but um, but it came off. It's a real old refrigerator. I think that [laughs], that that's what that is.

MW: How many people live here?

DS: About 15, I think.

MW: Wow, that's quite a few.

ES: Turn your head back, okay.

DS: Which way? This way?

ES: Yeah.

DS: Okay.

ES: Okay.

DS: Yeah, that's our refrigerator... [laughs] [more colloquy] ...We've got lots of good food in that refrigerator [laughing] I fix Don a good dinner every night...

MW: Peanut butter, I bet you have some peanut butter in there...

DS: Oh, I've got some peanut butter. Oh, you know what I've got? I've got some lutefisk in there, it's really terrible...

MW: Lutefisk? What's lutefisk?

DS: Oh, it's this horrible, rubbery fish. [laughs]. It's like this traditional, it's this traditional thing that Norwegians eat on Christmas and it's like really awful, and you have to grow up, you have to grow up eating it or you don't like it, you don't, you can't deal with it at all, it's really horrible.

ES: I remember when I was a kid and people would say, you know, Japanese eat raw fish? And I'm going, ewww... DS: [laughing] Well, lutefisk is like really awful, it's real rubbery...

MW: Is it in like cream sauce? Like with onions?

DS: Uh, no, it's marinated in lye. And all you do is, you drop it in water and boil it for three minutes and then you put butter on top of it and it's kind of like eating a plastic bag, it's really yucky [laughter]

MW: [talking over] -- fish flavor!

DS: It's really horrible... And Don's a real good sport, like, like, he eats it. And, um, it's really funny, because I go to the co-op, the grocery store here and they try to be real cool, they try to have, you know, like, all these different ethnic things. And so they've got lutefisk and it's funny to go to the fish market and see this great big thing around Christmas of lutefisk and, like, nobody's buying it. [laughs] And so I've been buying it all the time, I was like, gee, we can't let all this good lutefisk go to waste.

ES: What is it Norwegian?

DS: Yeah, it's....

ES: And you're Norwegian?

DS: Part Norwegian. My mother ...

ES: Did you grow up eating it?

DS: Yeah, every...

ES: Where were you born?

DS: Uh, Chicago. Yeah.

MW: Do you go to the Berkeley Bowl?

DS: Actually, uh, no, because the lines are so long. I usually go to the Co-op, you know, and they've got a lot of real neat stuff there. This lutefisk, it's like, you can smell it. It's like, it smells fishier than any other kind of fish. [footsteps towards refrigerator] MW: I lived on Dwight Way for a few years

DS: Oh wow! [refrigerator door opens and closes, sounds of lutefisk being unwrapped]

MW: You know that - [studio co-ops]?

DS: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, oh neat. ...But this is - here, you can kinda smell it.

MW: Smells like paper...

DS: [barely audible] But this is --

MW: -- No, that's okay! I believe you.

DS: Oh yeah. I can smell it. [laughs]

ES: [walking around in kitchen] How many lunchboxes does this guy have? [laughter]

MW: Feed it to the cats?

DS: Uh, no, no, we feed it to us. [sound of lutefisk being wrapped]

ES: Where do you find all these lunchboxes?

DS: Oh, these aren't ours. This was, uh...

ES: Yeah, I know, you said your roommate collected... [refrigerator door closing]

DS: Yeah, yeah, Biff who has the toy store downstairs. And this, those aren't all of 'em, he's got 'em down in the toy store, down--

ES: Is that right here in the building?

DS: Uhm, well, we all rent here, but the guy that owns the building doesn't live here. But the Godzilla came from Scooby's, and uh, the lunch boxes, those are all Biff's. [gesturing towards Biff's room] Like, they're probably in there right now. [laughs]. Oh, [laughs] but the really disgusting thing, I'm going to show you ...

MW: Oh, um, Don gave me this --

ES: A list? Good.

DS: This is a really bad thing. Okay, these are Breath Blasters, have you heard about this? And this is dog breath. It smells -- isn't that horrible? This smells, this smells just like my apartment did when I had Tona.

ES: Oh, that's right, we haven't talked about Tona.

DS: Yeah, um -- oh, yeah, Tona would be a good thing to talk about. [laughs]. Well, he smelled like this. [laughs] You know, I bought this just to remind me of Tona. Like every time I smell this, it reminds me of my dog.

ES: Isn't that nice. How long do they last?

DS: Um, I think forever [laughs].

MW: I didn't smell it.

DS: There.

MW: It smells like rubber.

DS: No it doesn't.

ES: [sniffs] No, it doesn't.

DS: [laughs]

ES: But it smells like some powder or something.

MW: Flea powder.

DS: It smells like disgusting dog eczema.

ES: Eczema, right.

DS: [laughs]

MW: D'you have a bathroom?

DS: Uh, yeah. Yeah.

ES: So you want to tell us about your pets?

DS: [laughs] About my [unintelligible]?

ES: Oh, right, and there's the one question, too.

DS: Oh, oh, oh.

ES: The ultimate question.

DS: Yeah, yeah -- do I fuck my dog?

ES: Well, I wasn't actually going to put it that way, but...

DS: [laughs] Um, no, I don't fuck my dog. I really don't.

ES: You're just good friends.

DS: We're just good friends. [laughs]

ES: Well, how did all that start?

DS: Well, it started, I'm going to get up here, it started because, um, I did, well, see, I worked at Last Gasp, I did that story called Crabs Eating Raoul. And I ended it up that I broke up with the guy, and the last story was, I decided, you know, from this experience, when I stopped swinging, and from this experience, I discovered the true love of my life. And it shows a picture of me and my dog under the covers and he's licking my face.

ES: And that was Tona.

DS: Yeah, and, and I'm hugging him. And after that, like, I went to work and everybody was saying, Dori, do you fuck your dog? [laughs] It looks like you fuck your dog from this.

ES: That was the, from the, you got a [swing] story?

DS: Uh, from the, Crabs Eating Raoul. That was, that was, it was a takeoff on Eating Raoul, but, we called Crabs Eating Raoul, because it was about crabs...

ES: That was in Weirdo? I don't remember seeing that.

DS: Oh, you didn't?

ES: No.

DS: That was, uh, in Weirdo #9.

ES: Huh. I could have sworn I looked through there, oh well.

DS: Yeah, you know, if you want to turn this off for a minute, I could find it. I could find it.

ES: Oh no that's okay, we'll just keep it running and then when it's over we'll do whatever we haven't done with the tape on, because I still wanted to like, take some more -- however many exposures we have - take five, okay -- or eight.

MW: I think you should take a picture of the sign on the toilet.

DS: Oh, yeah! Yeah! Oh, it's great.

ES: What does it say?

MW: Well, go look, go look...

ES: Well, I don't want to take any pictures, any more pictures --

DS: Okay, well, I can tell you all about our toilet [laughs]. Um, no well see, this toilet, it's like - um, well, well you'll see, you should take a picture. Well, actually, this should be a surprise, you should just see it first.

ES: Okay.

DS: See, it says, Don't shit in this toilet. And --

ES: Is that why the window's open?

DS: No, but, there was this other sign, and it started out, well it said, If you use this toilet, you'll be sorry. This is why we [unintelligible]...

ES: People in New York will really love this.

DS: [laughs] No, this is, look at this, what, this is the first note that Don put on it, If you use this toilet, you'll be sorry. This was when, uh, a couple of us took a shit in it and, and flushed it, and it just like, went all over. [laughs] And so then, um, what one of the roommates did, was, they took a shit in it and then they didn't flush it. So it just sat there, they were afraid to flush it. So, like, this was when it was still hot outside -

MW: Oh, no!

DS: It was, I might do a story about this sometime, but... [laughs], it was, it was like about a week and a half --

ES: You heard it here first. [laughter]

DS: It was about a week and a half, and it was just, sitting there, and it was getting really hot out and then you could like, smell it all the way out in the kitchen, it was like really bad. So there was this one night, it was like just about all of us couldn't take any more, we left notes all over the, you know, kitchen table that said, you know, Will whoever is responsible for the toilet, you know, please... you know, dare to flush it or somehow get those turds out of there, because it's really hot out, you can smell it out here. So then, um, [laughs], Biff had put a note on the toilet that, uh, it said, If you use this toilet, you'll be sorry - he put a note over here that said, it said, If you look in this toilet, you'll be sorry. [laughter] So then, finally, whoever did it put some Drano in it and just left it and then Biff was the one that dared to flush it and it all went down. So then Don put the --

ES: Has it worked ever since?

DS: Oh, yeah, well, we, you have to shit upstairs. Like, this one is just for number one [laughs]. But that night, uh, Krystine Kryttre came over here the day that the notes were all over the table about the toilet and she said, Dori, what's this about? And I said, Let me show you and I brought her in there and it was [laughing] the worst possible thing...

ES: So Mary and I are going to go out nightclubbing and stuff with some of her friends in San Francisco Friday, if you want to go.

DS: Um, let's see, Friday, Krystine's going to come over here. Yeah.

ES: Okay, and then Saturday night there's a, or Saturday there's a, there's a benefit for uh, Intersection and there's going to be a party afterwards.

DS: Oh wow --

ES: And, we're leaving Sunday morning, if you want to go...

DS: Oh. Oh wow. Wow. Yeah, that'd be neat, that'd be real neat.

ES: Okay, that would be fun...

MW: Who's reading at [the benefit]?

ES: Six people, I don't remember who they are, either... it doesn't matter, it's a benefit.

DS: Yeah, that'd be neat, that'd be real neat. Yeah.

ES: Okay, great.

DS: Okay! [laughter]

ES: So, um, who did you have first, Dracula or Tona?

DS: Uh, I had Dracula first. I had Dracula and her sister, Kitty Kate, I had, you know, two cats, like what we have here, and they were real nice cats. And then, uh, the thing was, I was working at Last Gasp and I didn't have a car, and I was walking home, uh, through the Mission, and it wasn't a very good neighborhood and, I --

ES: What year was this?

MW: Where did you live in the Mission?

DS: Um, I lived at, um, okay, I lived at 20th and Guerrero and Last Gasp, no, I lived at 18th and Guerrero and Last Gasp was at 20th and Bryant. So I was walking from 20th and Bryant to 18th and Guerrero at 10 o'clock...

ES: What time of night was this, because you worked at night?

DS: Yeah, 10 or 11 o'clock at night. This was before I completely switched over to the night shift, because I slowly switched over...

ES: Well, that's the best time to do bookkeeping anyway...

DS: Yeah, yeah. [laughs] Yeah, um, there were a lot of reasons for that, but, like, I was walking home and a couple times, um, guys tried to mug me, and you know, like, it was like, what I do is, I was wearing this really dirty old down jacket with grease all over it and I, I just quit looking like a girl, because I knew I had to walk through the Mission, you know, and I'd, and I'd carry a beer bottle home like a club, and, you know, I had to do this thing to look real big and tough so, so people wouldn't bother me. And, I was getting really sick of doing that and there was a couple, one time I actually had to like fight with the guy and I scared him away from me, I don't know how I did that. [laughs] Because I'm not very scary at all. [laughing] Um, so --

ES: Well, I guess it has to do with adrenaline or something...

DS: [laughing] Yeah I, I think so. But, um, no I realized, you know, my first, uh, reaction when somebody attacks me is I just, I go crazy and I, I get really pissed off that somebody would attack me. You know, I just kind of [fierce snarling] you know, Get the fuck away from me -- What?

MW: What was the photo one?

DS: Uh -- oh, the photo funnies, yeah.

MW: Right. Yeah, that was funny --

ES: Which one?

MW: Remember where they decided to go for thrills, to, um, get dressed up in drag, and go down to...

ES: Oh, right.

DS: Oh, yeah. Oh, oh, that's my friend Bob Davis. I just got, let me, I got to show you this - [sound of Dori running off to retrieve something]

MW: With the karate kicks --

ES: Well, wait, we have to talk about Dracula before the tape runs out.

MW: We have another side, don't we?

DS: [off in distance] ...I've got a bunch of pictures -- [sound of Dori returning]

ES: Yeah, but I don't want to use it.

MW: Oh, use it --

ES: No, I don't want to... I have to like, limit my scope, somewhere.

DS: Yeah, yeah, I've got a bunch of pictures. He's, uh, um, okay, I was talking about....

ES: How did Dracula and Tona get along...

DS: [coughs] Um, uh, oh, uh, well, oh oh, uh, uh, I was, I was, I was getting to that, well, anyway [laughs]...

ES: Did Dracula really bury your socks in the cat box?

DS: Yeah!, Yeah -- yeah, yeah, she really did that once.

ES: Just dirty ones.

DS: Yeah, yeah, just dirty ones. She just, you know, cats do that, if they smell something stinky, they'll act like they want to bury around it.

MW: [talking over] Like old cat food, old cat food...

DS: Yeah, old cat food, yeah. Yeah, they'll do that, and she'd do that with my socks, she'd carry 'em over and I'd find my socks hanging out of the cat box, you know. Like, [laughs] when I got too sloppy and wore my socks too long and left them laying around in the bathroom, they'd always end up in the cat box. .And, um, the thing, how they got along was, uh, Tona just followed me home from work one night. And, this was after, you know, like I almost got mugged twice, and, this great big dog followed me home and he was like all dirty and everything, and so I fed him some cat food. And the next day, I've got a bull whip, I've got a 10-foot bull whip...

ES: That you don't use.

DS: What? Oh, no, I never use it, it just sits up in my room gathering dust [laughs, coughs]. But, um, anyway, I had this bull whip, and I wanted to take him back to Last Gasp and let him go where I found him, because I figured he probably, you know, he had a home. So anyway, I walked him to work, I tied the bull whip around his neck and walked him to work, so I'm here with this huge Doberman. And I thought, well, I think I'll show Ronzo. [laughs] And so I brought him in, I said, Ronzo, look what I found last night! And Ron looked at him and said, [in Ronzo voice] You can't keep him. You can't bring him to work. And I said, well, I wasn't planning to, I was going to let him go. So I let him go outside the building and I figured he'd go home. And I got off work and he was waiting for me. And he followed me home again. And so, like, I kept him, and I called the SPCA, and, I put an ad in the paper, and nobody claimed him, and so I - I had a dog.

ES: So what about the thing with Don and the telephone book?

DS: Uh, [laughs] oh, that was true, that was true. Uh, the thing was, like, Tona -- the thing was, I only had two rooms, and I , it was, it was awful in there, it was like, it turned into a dog cave, Tona took over the whole apartment. It was like he slept on the bed, everything was all covered with dog hair and all torn up, and, um, [coughs] the thing was, when people would come in, Tona was, you know, had like all this excess energy, because he was cooped up in this little place. He'd like jump all over 'em, you know, and he'd, he'd get like, like really wild, so, um... Anyway, when Don came in, what he'd do is, he'd beat him off with the phone book. And Tona loved it, like this was a game, [laughing], he really liked a lot of people, a lot of people.... There was a real long hallway, before you got to my apartment, because it was, um, like a really long flat that had been turned into two apartments, so, the long hallway, you know, through the middle, that was, you know, the hallway between the door and where my apartment started. So people would walk down this long, dark hallway, and get to the door, open the door [laughing] and see this Doberman jumping up and down, [laughing] and they'd say, No, I can't deal with this... [coughing] But he was, he was really a wild dog.

ES: But you can't see him anymore, then.

DS: Um, you know, I think I probably could, I think I probably could now, because they've had him long enough. The thing is, I -

ES: How long have they had him?

DS: Um, they've had him about a year. They've had him a little over...

ES: And he lived with you for five years?

DS: Uh, yeah, yeah. Um, they've had him a little over a year now.

ES: And he has a yard to play in now.

DS: Yeah, yeah.

MW: Where does he live?

DS: Yeah, um, it's in Daly City or south San Francisco or someplace. I've, I've got their phone number. But. Um -- every so often, I've thought about calling and seeing if I could see him, you know? Uh, or come and take some pictures of him, you know, or something like that.

ES: How did you go - uh, what did you do? Did you put --

DS: Uh, I put an ad in the Advertiser.

ES: So you know them, anyway.

DS: Yeah. Mm hm.

ES: You didn't have a broker take care of it? ...Dog broker...

DS: Oh, no. No, I wanted to meet the people, you know, I wanted to meet the people. And the thing was, I was sort of...

ES: Did they realize, you know, who you were, or anything, or, who Tona was?

DS: Oh, no. No. [laughing]. Oh, no, huh-uh, no, um, well, not that many people read underground comics, you know. It's like a real obscure sort of thing, you know.

ES: Yeah, well, it's not as bad as poetry. [laughing]

DS: [laughs] It's about the same as poetry. It's about, it's about the same. Yeah.

MW: ...How many copies of Lonely Nights have been sold, roughly?

DS: Um, I - I really don't have any idea. 10,000 were printed up, and it's still in print. You know, I, I don't --

ES: But it's only, it's only been out for 8 months now, right?

DS: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so, um, you know, so I don't, yeah, that's not, really not very long.

ES: So you're drinking again?

DS: [sound of bottlecap hitting tabletop as brewski is opened] Um, well, I'm drinking like a little bit socially, I don't drink like I used to. You know, I used to wake up in the morning and start -- well, start drinking beer, and, I stopped doing that. Now I drink a little bit socially.

ES: And how long have you been doing that? Because you stopped completely for a while, didn't you?

DS: Uh, no, I never stopped completely. I still drank socially, you know, just because, you know, I'm used to doing it. And I don't think there's, there's like anything wrong with drinking. I think there is something wrong with getting up in the morning and [laughing] having a beer, though. And then keeping on the rest of the day, 'cause that's what I was doing. That -- I, I, I've taken off 25 pounds -- I got real fat. It was like, when I finished Lonely Nights, it was... [laughter] No, when I finished Lonely Nights, it was just like having a baby. Because it was like, okay, I've got to quit drinking now, I'm too fat...

ES: You had stretch marks?

DS: I do! I do. Seriously. On my legs, you know, from, uh... But, I was, I was big, I was like, really huge, and I lost it all, like, it's really neat, because I can wear a lot of my old clothes. So..

ES: Again.

DS: Yeah.

MW: Good thing you saved them.

DS: Yeah [giggle]. Yeah. Yeah, I lost it, I lost it like, really pretty fast, too...

MW: So I guess you probably asked her how she started being a cartoonist already...?

ES: That was the first question I asked her, yeah.

DS: Yeah, yeah, mm-hm... Yeah. But, um, uh, I really like being a cartoonist, it's like, um, it's real neat -- I really like the people...

ES: What kind of long-term goals do you have?

DS: Um, I want to keep on cartooning. And I want to keep on doing undergrounds. Uh, it's like, a lot of people, they seem to like, use undergrounds as a way to start out, start off, and then they want to... you know, yeah, move on to Marvel or, DC or something like that. And it's like, that's not what I want to do, I really...

ES: Or the main -- newspapers, or something.

DS: Yeah, yeah. I want to stay in undergrounds.

ES: Can you, can you -- do you think you can do that, and eventually make a living doing it?

DS: [coughs] Uh, what I'm trying to do, is, do undergrounds, and do some illustration, you know like, on the side. And that's what, you know, that's what I'd like to do. I've got to make a little more money than I'm, I am, but, um, you know, like, I want to work on that. The thing is, um, I really like undergrounds. On one hand, I'd like to make more money; on the other hand, I think, well, if I want to make more money, I'd have to do this, or I'd have to do this, or I'd have to do this. And I don't want to be in the newspapers, and I don't want to be mainstream, again.

ES: So, how did the timing work out with you starting cartooning and starting to work at Last Gasp? How did that all work out, with Ronzo and stuff?

DS: Um, uh, well - um, I started [coughs] working at Last Gasp, because I wanted to get into underground comic books, because I went in there with a portfolio, to begin with. And um, then he hired me as a janitor. And, uh, then, I started doing bookkeeping. And um, uh, it's like two years later I got into Weirdo...

ES: That was your - that was the story that we talked about earlier...

DS: Let's see, [laughs] gee, what were we talking about? It was in Weirdo #2, and, my friend Kevin Lambert wrote that one and that was one that we drew together in 1977, so I'd been like carrying it around...

ES: You drew it together?

DS: Uh, he wrote it and I drew it.

ES: Oh, right, okay.

DS: Yeah, we did that together. He lives in Austria now. You know, he's, uh, and he's probably never coming back, he's a musician over there. Yeah.

MW: Classical musician?

DS: Uh, drum. Drums, drums. No, um, he's, um, uh, a weird musician. He was involved in new music over here and there's just no more new music happening, you know, around here anymore.

ES: There's lots of new music happening in Los Angeles.

DS: Oh, really?

MW: You mean, by new music, like, music from the hearts of space type stuff, that, radio theremin, you know, woooooooo.

DS: Yeah! Yeah, yeah, [laughter] like that, like that, yeah, yeah. But I guess there's, there's still some of that happening in Austria. And he feels like there wouldn't be anything to come back to here and his old friends are telling him there's nothing to come back to here because the whole thing, you know, has completely fallen apart... But what I was, -- uh, oh, well .. [laughs] It seemed like we were doing so, so good with it, when the tape shut off. And I'm thinking, what were we talking about?

ES: Oh, don't worry about it. Like I said, I mean, you've given me a lot more information than you realize.

DS: Oh. Oh, good. Oh, good [laughing].

MW: Well, you'd started talking about being a janitor at Last Gasp.

DS: Uh-huh, yeah.

MW: So, how long were you a janitor?

DS: I was a janitor, I don't know, for about a month. Oh, the funny thing about it, the funny thing about being a janitor there was, uh, one thing I used to do with jobs, I told you that, you know, like I'd made a career out of unemployment for a while. And, like, what I'd do when I wanted to be laid off from jobs, is I'd, uh, try to see, you know, like, how weird I could dress, you know, just how bad I could look, you know like, when I went in, uh, you know, before somebody would say something about it. And when I was a janitor at Last Gasp, you know, Ron is like a real slob [laughs].

ES: [laughter] Oh, so he was worse...

DS: [laughing] He was a total slob, I mean -- no, but he was like, one day, I went in, I went in and like, what I had on was, I wrapped this dirty old scarf around my head, my hair was all dirty, and these earrings on, and I had sunglasses on, and then I had this, like, dirty Banlon shirt, and then I was wearing these white pants that were too big on me, it was like the [laughing] crotch hung down to here, and they were so long that they hung down on the floor, and they were bell bottoms, and like, so I like took rags and like, tied 'em around my ankles, I tied 'em, you know, so they wouldn't drag on the floor. And I had some like, old tennis shoes on, you know, [laughing] so I came in, like, [laughing] ...I looked awful! I went in there like that, and started cleaning up, and I, I was waiting for Ron to say something... He didn't even notice. [laughing, coughing]

ES: He didn't wanna know where you bought the outfit...?

DS: No, he just acted like nothing was wrong. So then, then I realized, that, um, he's actually yelled at people that are working there, uh, for dressing too nice. He'll yell at 'em and say, What do you think, people are going to come in here and think this is a yuppie place! You know.

ES: So, this is a real counter-culture business operation...

CONTINUED